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  #31  
Old 20-09-2005, 02:23 PM
tejkumar.pulapa tejkumar.pulapa is offline
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every effect has its own cause-as one of the newtons laws, we need to see the cause thats the poverty.government should try to find some kind of (self)employment for those involved in it.since all this process needs much time,legalising brothels makes it to create a safe environment for the sex workers. who ever they may be,what ever they practise they are humans and they deserve their rights to be attended.
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  #32  
Old 20-09-2005, 03:53 PM
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Legalize the brothels and control the spread of HIV among the sex worker populations.

There is no denying that commercial sex is already here. There is also no denying that people from all sectors of the community (unemployed, school kids, office workers and business men-women) and all religions (lay and clergy alike) are clients of these commercial sex workers. So why closet this industry and place the "normal" people at high risk day after day, hour by hour.

It is too late to stop commercial sex. Rather than fight it and lose, regulations (legalizing etc) and control is required to stem the spread of HIV from the reservoir of HIV infection among the "normal populace" to the sex workers and back to our unsuspecting children, husbands , wife (ves), sisters and lovers. Lets get real.

There are issues of stigmatization of sex workers and other groups like the PLWHAs (people living with hiv-aids) that must be confronted now rather than too late. We are following the African trends and may need look to Africa or Brazil for answers.

And while the legalization of commercial sex work may be a medium term plan, major underlying issues that push people into the industry will still plague us; the unemployment and poverty, illiteracy and gender inequalities, peer presure.

As "Possum" already said, it is supply and demand issue. As long as there will exist the human urge and desire to have sex (men or women), there will always be someone to satisfy this urge either freely (as lovers, wives or husbands) or commercially. Without being too Freudian I guess that is the underlying urge that drives our world.

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Last edited by "xtc"; 20-09-2005 at 08:48 PM.
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  #33  
Old 22-09-2005, 12:10 PM
Mangi Aseki Mangi Aseki is offline
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Possum...you da man!
Maybe the only sensible contributions to this thread! The rest could be classified anything between im-mature/couldnt-care-less to idealistc, blinkered, emotional and totally out of sync with what is happening in this beautiful country. I'd wager most of these respondents are in the under-thirty age group...could I be wrong?

For the religionsit amongst you, look at it this way:

Satan himself is at work here....AIDS is his 'brand new' weapon against mankind (some of you, no doubt, think it is the merciful, loving GOD who sent the scourge of AIDS amongst his flock? Would he really, now?)

Satan laughs in glee when he see that the strongest weapon the church has to throw at his scourge is MORAL LECTURES. The basic message of "do not fornicate" unfortunately just doesn't cut it any more, not in this modern world we live in. What this sort of a message does achieve is, to create feelings of guilt in the common folk (which, no doubt, is the intention) but rater from abstaining (a super-human task for most) the activity is driven into the dark, hidden and dangerous shadows of the 'illicit'. This un-controlled environment lends itself so perfectly to Satans designs....exploitation of women and even children, rampant spread of AIDS and so many other diseases...leading to the break-down of all social and cultural mores, traditions and the fibre of humanity.

Satan laughs at the impotent efforts of the various NGO's and anti-AIDS campaigners...freely distributed condoms are happily used by people for anything and everything other than what they are supposed to be used for. Huge sums of money spent in a one-sided battle organising seminars, lectures and educational programs mean nothing when the government does not have legislation in place to protect and gaurantee the rights of sex-workers (who, by the way, will not just disappear in a puff of smoke because they are indignantly told their ways are morally wrong).

Satan laughs as he gathers strength from our moral indignation when we loudly (and unthinkingly) call for a ban on legalising prostitution, making his job so much easier!

The question is: Are we strong enough to face this new challange? It will test us spiritually, morally and as human beings. Satan has learnt to use our strengths against us...our strong principles, our deeply-ingrained Christian morals...which now work in his favour by denying this country the ONLY hope to a solution for controlling AIDS.

It may well surprise the likes of Donna M. Hughes and friend scuba-diver, to know that many women willingly get into prostitiution. (The reasons are many, and can be discussed in a seperate thread!)

Legalising prostitution does not mean legalising exploitation...it means REMOVING exploitation, it means initiating a sytem where medical checks can be enforced, it means providing certain rights to sex-workers - making them a part of main-stream humanity - and not forcing them to live on the fringes, cowering in fear and open to exploitation, like helpless animals, where their only friends are liquor and their pimps.

Let us not allow our mis-directed personal views, bolsterd with good Christian morals, deny these wretched people the right to live like human beings, while allowing Satans work to spread un-checked!
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  #34  
Old 25-09-2005, 10:55 AM
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The freudean view

To add to xtcs' comments Freud described certain drives which are necessary instinctual behaviour patterns which are geared towards survival of the individual and then the species.

These include:
1.warmth
2.food
3.shelter
4.securtiy

once these are satisfied propagation of the species becomes important

5. sexual reproduction.


From a Freudean point of view the basic urges/drives are easily satisfied in our modern society with its conveniences and so there is a tendency towards sexual reproduction (as evidenced by our exploding population).

The human behavioural nexus then kicks in at this stage where cultural and moral factors determine the context in which sex and reproduction occur.

In traditional society this would often occur in the setting of a monogamous couple although in some areas polygamy was practised however in both cases sex occured in the context of a family setting and within the confines of cultural norms and beliefs.

In modern society these values have been done away with (except where some politicians insist on 'traditional polygamy' to satisfy their urges) to a large extent. However PNG has become a nominally Christian country which promotes sex in the context of the family and marraige.

With the erosion of traditional and religious values, men and women are left to act on their own impulses (literally).

Economics dictates that in a modern society food, warmth, shelter and security (in some instances) are purchased by money.

Sex in this sense can become a commodity as it can be comercialised and sold as a service.

Sexual conjugation being a basic urge in humans; being present in modern society without the constraints of traditional/religious values will allow men and women to indulge in commercial sexual behaviour where sexual needs are met for a price without the encumberance of family, responsibilty and morals.

In other words sex is provided to meet an instinctual urge to reproduce but is now framed to provide pleasure and satisfaction temporaly without fulfilling its function which in evolutionary terms was to bond a mating couple, produce offspring and rear them in a secure and protected envirionment.

Well folks thats my Freudian speil for the day .... next is a reply to mangi aseki.
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Last edited by possum; 25-09-2005 at 11:19 AM.
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  #35  
Old 25-09-2005, 11:17 AM
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The Christian view

From a Christian perspective the answer is simple; obey the 10 commandments of which one states ' you should not commit adultry' and the other state that you should not covet your 'neighbours assets'.

Extramarital affairs where punished harshly and furthermore Gods displeasure at Sodom and Gomorrah is evident by the fact that they were obliterated for the sexual deviances offered within their gates.

However within the bible are examples of prostitutes who were given a second chance.

Rahab helped the children of Israel by assisting Joshuas two spies infiltrate the fortified city of ****tim and so only she and her family were spared (read in Joshua).

A woman 'sinner' wept at the feet of Jesus and washed his feet with her tears. Jesus showed compassion on her and did not judge her for who she was or what she had done. He forgave her sins.

In fact some scholars say that this woman was Mary of Magdala (Mary Magdalene) who was one of the greatest women desciples of that time.

Thus I guess the lessons here is that practicing christians should confine sexual relations to the context of a marraige relationship but also should not be judgemental on those who through circumstances have opted to sell themselves for a price.

Through support and genuine concern for the human being can one effect change in that persons life and circumstances.

By providing access to health care, welfare support and education some (ideally all) of these women may be rescued from the social and economic quagmire and contribute towards nation building by having alternative means of income.
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  #36  
Old 25-09-2005, 10:40 PM
Maus Gras Maus Gras is offline
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Now thats what I like to see, a well researched, well reasoned and logical argument. My congratulations Possum. However I will challenge some of your conclusions.

You say

"From a Freudean point of view the basic urges/drives are easily satisfied in our modern society with its conveniences and so there is a tendency towards sexual reproduction (as evidenced by our exploding population)."

Our population is exploding not because we are doing "it" more often but because of modern medicine, better nutrition and hygiene the babies that are born are surviving i.e. infant mortality drops.

You then say "With the erosion of traditional and religious values, men and women are left to act on their own impulses (literally)."

I am not sure what "traditional and religious values" you are refering to. Are you talking about the pre-European values that were changed by the chrisitian missionaries or the christian value system that is changing under the wider global influences. This then begs the question is cultural change inevitable in PNG and is it such a bad thing?

Finally you say "In other words sex is provided to meet an instinctual urge to reproduce but is now framed to provide pleasure and satisfaction temporaly without fulfilling its function which in evolutionary terms was to bond a mating couple, produce offspring and rear them in a secure and protected envirionment."

Now this is the most interesting thing you have said. I dont think you realise just how right your are on this evolutionary point. It certainly is true that sex has many functions in society and its primary function is reproduction, but it may come as no surprise it has other functions as well.

Humans are a bit of an exception in the animal world in that although our females, like all mammals have an oestrus cycle (a cycle in which she is fertile only for a short period), she remains sexually receptive at all times. In most mammals the female will only receive the male when she is fertile. The obvious question is then why did humans evolve to have sex when they cannot conceive.

The answer lies in the fact that pregnant female humans and mothers with young children are very vulnerable. Our young compared to many other mammals are born quite immature and poorly developed. They are dependent on their mother for many years. In turn a nursing mother needs to keep the male around to defend her from threats and to provide food for her and her young. So she evolved continuous sex as a "bribe" to keep him around and interested in her and her young.

In other words "the family" is just a sophisticated system that females evolved to bribe males to hang around and protect them.
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  #37  
Old 17-10-2005, 02:57 PM
meripng meripng is offline
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I was surfing the pngnetscape.com recently and came across a posting with the night clubs listing in Port Moresby and what clubs have been doing. One interesting thing I read about was the stripping club in Hanuabada (Hideout Club) where people pay to wrestle with naked girls and the other so call clubs.

Where's the police to raid these places?? The Konedobu Police Station is just in front of this club... Very sad to see that some people are working hard to try and control the spread of HIV/AIDS while others are using young innocent girls and women to exploit them and exposing them to these deadly diseases.


observer tasol........meripng
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  #38  
Old 17-10-2005, 03:05 PM
Maus Gras Maus Gras is offline
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Hmmm!!! ... I think you have just discovered something .... You can catch HIV/AIDS by wrestling with naked girls. The doctors will be interested.
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  #39  
Old 17-10-2005, 06:52 PM
meripng meripng is offline
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........ ...........................

Last edited by meripng; 17-10-2005 at 07:11 PM.
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  #40  
Old 17-10-2005, 07:10 PM
meripng meripng is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maus Gras
Hmmm!!! ... I think you have just discovered something .... You can catch HIV/AIDS by wrestling with naked girls. The doctors will be interested.

No you can't catch HIV/AIDS by wrestling with naken girls but it can lead to unprotected sex and with introduction of such night clubs like Club Hideout in Hanuabada, Good Music, Cheap Liquor, Affordable rates for their Escort Service, Safe parking, Lady Bouncers, Poker Machines and Mud Wrestling!!!!! Tuesdays are dedicated to the xxxx Movies. A Place to try, popular with the expats (www.pngscape.net).

Skelim nau........
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