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  #21  
Old 10-08-2005, 01:58 PM
meripng meripng is offline
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Exclamation Women group slams plans to legalise brothels

PROSTITUTION should not be legalised in PNG, says the president of the PNG National Council of Women Ms Scholla Warai Kakas. “The national constitution is framed and built on Christian principles but to have an Act of Prostitution is just like incorporating evilness into the society. “Do not tolerate unchristian practices and beliefs to rot this country.

“It is an act of mockery against the statute that gives PNG the autonomous sovereignty,” she said. She stated that if prostitution is legalised the real value of sex, marriage and family will be lost forever. “People will use sex just for fun.

“Marriage, sex and family come in one package with very important meaning and purpose as it creates a bond between man and woman,” she added.
Family problems will increase and the infection rate of HIV/AIDS will be uncontrollable and will have a great impact on the future generation.
Furthermore, it is totally against the norms and values of the society. Ms Kakas stressed that PNG must be conscious about its strong traditional and cultural values.

In societal context, prostitutes or “raun raun (pamuk) meri/man” are regarded as animals. With this very strong societal norms and values PNG can develop in this modern era without prostitution. She also urged all leaders to write fair and beneficial laws for a rich and prosperous PNG. However, if prostitution is legalised, the HIV/AIDS epidemic will never be addressed adequately.

It would only be hypocritical and cause further complications to the situation.
“As far as the law is concerned it is illegal and, therefore all prostitutes and so-called brothel owners promoting such activities here in PNG must be prosecuted. “Strip tease is against our societal norms and customs and should be discouraged at hotels and nightclubs - it’s a corrupt act that leads to evil acts of adultery and fornication,” she added.

[ Courtesy: http://www.thenational.com.pg/0810/nation24.htm]

meripng...
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  #22  
Old 24-08-2005, 11:11 PM
sugu.valley sugu.valley is offline
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Question Totally against prostn.

Meripng,

Nearly all aspects of the issue have been discussed but I would like to express some practical things.
It is undisputable that the business will be a successul revenue earner for the operators as well as the government like in Thailand, Fiji and others. However, I agree with the person who says there will be an explosion of drug trade and Pornography industry associted with prostitution, as well as human smuggling and child sex trade.
For example, although pornography is illegal, one can not deny the bulk of CDs, video tapes and magazines distributed here and there, and if I am not wrong, some Papua New Guineans are allready into 'Acting Pornographic Movies!!!' and yet no one has said anything about this, maybe because there is not enough substance/evidence.
There are many more issues to discuss however, I would like to end here saying: How will prostitutes live a normal life among their friends and familes in their respective societies? What will their status be in society? If they are or will become parents, will their siblings have a normal status in society?
As we are Melanesians, I am just putting out some things that are troubling me.
That's all and I am open for more discussions, comments or arguements.
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  #23  
Old 26-08-2005, 03:00 AM
mangitbay mangitbay is offline
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A sad story



Just recently, a co-worker of mine was telling few of us how this friend of his died.

This is how he relate the story. This story starts in a place called North Bay, Ontario, Canada. This particular family of 4 (2 boys - (26 & 21) and 2 girls (31 & 19) were living with their parents since childhood and later we their own way except for the 19 yr old girl. She stayed over at her parents from time to time.

Just like most people in Canada, most people have more than one job to try and stay ontop of their bills. It became apparent that this family was doing the same. Both parents were working and had very little time together at home because of their second or third jobs.

One day, the 21 yr old called for an escort service. However, he was not staying at his own place and was drunk. The escort service personnel send in what he asked for. After paying for the service and getting laid, both realised that they knew each other.

Nothing was said, except that the mom said "son, I had to do this to just put food on the table and pay some of our over due bills".

Four hours later, the son committed suicide. He wrote a note for her sister telling her why he had to do that. For the family, it was never the same again. This is a true story.
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  #24  
Old 26-08-2005, 02:37 PM
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Jaybee Jaybee is offline
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Hey bro...this is truely a sad story...
Thanks for sharing...
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  #25  
Old 29-08-2005, 08:35 AM
ulu.tange ulu.tange is offline
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Sick and tired of the issue...
The concerned authorities should just forget about the issue since majority of Papua New Guineans do not want it. The government is supposed to ammend or introduce policies and bills that is always in the best interest of its people and if they do not want it, then it is not in their best interest so do not bother talking about it in Parliament or any other public forum...
Open for arguements, discussions and opinions
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  #26  
Old 01-09-2005, 12:31 AM
Maus Gras Maus Gras is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangitbay
I agree with the comments made by meripng. Legalizing brothels will also have an indirect impact on other challenges PNG is currently faced with. I presume that an in crease in the following with be felt:
[list][*]Increasing in migration from smaller towns or rural area into towns or city where legalized brothels are located; [*]increase in social issues - breakdown of marriages; less money to support the children and pay for monthly bills;
.................................................
Mangitbay ... clearly you have given great thought to this issue in order to make up this long and comprehensive list but you have overlooked a few.

It is obvious that legalising brothels will also cause

the chickens to stop laying eggs
dogs will want to lie down with cats
water will stop boiling
and worse of all ...... we'll all go blind.

You have made an exhaustive list of "evils" without any evidence to link them to brothels.

For example, just how will legalised brothels lead to increased child prostitution. In fact I put it to you that the exact opposite will happen.

Legalised brothels will be specially licensed and have to conform to strict regulations or lose their license. Among these license conditions will be regular health checks of the sex workers (reducing the incidence of sexually transmitted diseases), a minimum age limit for employment, proper and fair working conditions and payment, hours of opening, location of premises (away from schools and churches).

It is the unregulated and illegal sex industry where the bad practises of underage workers, poor hygiene, STD's and corruption of police flourish.

Just how for instance would legalised brothels lead to increased migration from villages into towns or break up marriages. Are you seriously suggesting hundreds or thousands of men will leave their villages just so they can pay for sex? The thought is laughable. And if married men are preferring to pay for sex with a stranger rather than with their wives I would suggest that there is already something wrong with the marriage.- if you actually stop to think about your "reasons" then they are clearly illogical.
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  #27  
Old 02-09-2005, 03:54 AM
mangitbay mangitbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maus Gras
You have made an exhaustive list of "evils" without any evidence to link them to brothels.

For example, just how will legalised brothels lead to increased child prostitution. In fact I put it to you that the exact opposite will happen.

Legalised brothels will be specially licensed and have to conform to strict regulations or lose their license. Among these license conditions will be regular health checks of the sex workers (reducing the incidence of sexually transmitted diseases), a minimum age limit for employment, proper and fair working conditions and payment, hours of opening, location of premises (away from schools and churches).

It is the unregulated and illegal sex industry where the bad practises of underage workers, poor hygiene, STD's and corruption of police flourish.

Just how for instance would legalised brothels lead to increased migration from villages into towns or break up marriages. Are you seriously suggesting hundreds or thousands of men will leave their villages just so they can pay for sex? The thought is laughable. And if married men are preferring to pay for sex with a stranger rather than with their wives I would suggest that there is already something wrong with the marriage.- if you actually stop to think about your "reasons" then they are clearly illogical.
Maus Gras: You seem to operate on "Seeing is Believing" approach. The are a lot of evidence in the developed countries. Get out of PNG and see it for yourself in smaller citys of developed countries. High school kids making money after school.

If such practice is happening in developed countries, how are you going to prevent it form happening in PNG? There is a strong corelation with such issue and black market bia outlets in PNG. Legalised brothels will not stop similar openning in settlements. In actual fact, the settlements will bloom faster than the Legalised ones. One does not to have to be a rocket scientist to work that out.

Look at all the child sex trade in Asia. Tell me if this will not be the case in PNG? In actual fact, what happens in Asia comes to PNG quickly. Food stalls along the road side, selling of clothes on the streets.

I respect your opinion to look at the different side of the story or getting revenue for the province, however such revenue making process can cause long-term social challenges. We like development and business oportunities, however, we don't seem to understand the socially issues that it causes. And when it does, we don't have an answer to resolve it.
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  #28  
Old 03-09-2005, 04:52 PM
Maus Gras Maus Gras is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangitbay
[color=seagreen]Maus Gras: You seem to operate on "Seeing is Believing" approach.
Thanks for your reply. You are correct, I very much operate on a "Seeing is Believing approach". As a teacher and a scientist I am trained to to form conclusions only on hard evidence. The evidence must then be logically linked to the conclusion.

I know that sometimes I am criticised for my strong words, but if you read them clearly, I never criticise anyone for their beliefs. But I am strongly critical of the illogical and fuzzy thought processes they are too often based on. A conclusion must be supported by evidence and an "assertion" is not evidence.

What are my beliefs then on this issue. I believe the evidence shows that legalising the sex industry will lead to decrease in organised crime and reduction in police corruption. This has been overwhelmingly demonstrated in those countries that have a regulated sex industry. However I think that it would not have the same impact in PNG because the sex industry is not highly organised in the same way as it is in western or asian countries. In these countries the people who run the illegal sex industry also run the gambling, illegal immigration and drug industry. In PNG the sex industry is a "cottage" industry. Except for some notable examples in the larger cities it is usually individual women out of economic necessity that prostitute themselves. They are not "organised" and run other illegal activities (except perhaps as a low level drug dealer)

Legalising the city brothels will do nothing to help them. It would be much better to firstly decriminalise the act of prostitution because that only pertetuates the cycle of poverty but make the men (pimps) who organise then women more liable for sexual and physical abuse. By empowering the women to take control of their own lives then and only then will they find alternatives to selling their bodies for economic survival.
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  #29  
Old 04-09-2005, 11:26 AM
mangitbay mangitbay is offline
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maus Gras
Thanks for your reply. You are correct, I very much operate on a "Seeing is Believing approach". As a teacher and a scientist I am trained to to form conclusions only on hard evidence. The evidence must then be logically linked to the conclusion.

I know that sometimes I am criticised for my strong words, but if you read them clearly, I never criticise anyone for their beliefs. But I am strongly critical of the illogical and fuzzy thought processes they are too often based on. A conclusion must be supported by evidence and an "assertion" is not evidence.

What are my beliefs then on this issue. I believe the evidence shows that legalising the sex industry will lead to decrease in organised crime and reduction in police corruption. This has been overwhelmingly demonstrated in those countries that have a regulated sex industry. However I think that it would not have the same impact in PNG because the sex industry is not highly organised in the same way as it is in western or asian countries. In these countries the people who run the illegal sex industry also run the gambling, illegal immigration and drug industry. In PNG the sex industry is a "cottage" industry. Except for some notable examples in the larger cities it is usually individual women out of economic necessity that prostitute themselves. They are not "organised" and run other illegal activities (except perhaps as a low level drug dealer)

Legalising the city brothels will do nothing to help them. It would be much better to firstly decriminalise the act of prostitution because that only pertetuates the cycle of poverty but make the men (pimps) who organise then women more liable for sexual and physical abuse. By empowering the women to take control of their own lives then and only then will they find alternatives to selling their bodies for economic survival.
thanks bro: Just letting you know that science does not stand when it comes to decision making process in PNG. It goes through the windows in some decision making process for major projects! I understand what you are trying to say. Fifteen (15) years in the scientific profession both in PNG and overseas enables me to come to such a conclusion. Scientist these days do more studies to prove a theory correct. The bases of more research is keep scientists employed. It is sad to see scientists not thinking about long-term impacts of an industry, something that could be focused therefor build in management strategies to minimise or eliminate the negative impacts.

What I am seeing and hearing is that we are very reactive rather than being proactive. It is so evident in forums like this.

In PNG, the quality our graduate science students is dropping quickly because of the lack of quality teaching professionals at the various universities throughout PNG.


Poverty is found through out the world, and not only in the third world/developing countries. If one has to work in a developed country, try something outside of the city limits on mining, forestry or agricultural industries you would know what I mean. These people are poor in their own standards.

There are ppl in developed countries that are forced to put food on the table for their children or just pay for basic needs. They are forced to do more than one job. When kids are 18, they moved out of thier parents home to fend for themselv es. What else can one do to survive in a demanding world? They go for easy money. Register themselves as escort service providers either for a firm or as individuals.

Therefore legalising is one thing, but opens the way for others to move in the other direction. This can be run from home, a hotel or through the use of a cel phone.

How can one protect the privacy of the workers and their clients? No hidden cameras? Just imagine someone you know goes into one of these places, without knowing the film is rolling. After a while the tape is in circulation and you saw your own best friend in action, what are your views on such a person you considered as best friend?

Reading the daily papers (on the net) about a case involving a family in POM? Can you consider that as making money to help support the family or alternative life style?

mangitbay
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Last edited by mangitbay; 15-09-2005 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Edit text
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  #30  
Old 20-09-2005, 10:51 AM
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Gras is Greener

I must agree with Maus gras.

A lot of the post have drawn on the experience of asia and other nations where prostitution is organised and is a revenue earner for criminal gangs along with extortion, illegal migration, child labour, sweat shops, drug trafficing etc ...

The PNG situation is different as Maus Gras has pointed out it is by and large a 'cottage industry'.

With out regulation sexually transmitted disease will increase especially HIV with devastating consequences to the families of the victims, the community and the nation.

Furthermore how do you protect these vulnerable people from being exploited by clients, bashed, abused or murdered.

There are many issues involved here which have been brought up earlier and which I will not repeat.

Legislation needs to be in place especially to regulate the industry as it will allow access to health and education for this high risk group of individuals including their customers.

One need only look at the papers to see that the HIV epidemic is gathering momentum. This is one avenue through which we can make a difference if only the government can act sensibly now.
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