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Old 29-05-2006, 05:31 PM
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Arrow Living in Freedom, "Nudity" and Cultural Ideological Differences

Many years ago in Papua New Guinea it used to be normal and culturaly appropriate for women in general to go topless in public, and then as the years progressed, due to Western infuence, and ideological values of missionaries women have started "covering up" to the point that now you have to go into the "bikpela bus" to see people in "traditional dress". Yes, they still do dress "traditionally" for special occasions like the Goroka show, but I can remember when young women started wearing bilums, leaves or bras covering their breasts in singsings, when they never would have in the past. In talking to wantoks, I get the general conception that PNG men now find breasts more appealing and they have become a more sexualised part of the female form, where in the past the thighs were perhaps the main object of sexual appeal.

I am unsure if influencing the culture in this way has been as positive as people might have thought.

Sometimes covering up completely, or covering up slightly and leaving it "to the imagination to fill in the blanks" is considered more sexually appealing for men.

My main thought in relation to this is: Has covering up the breasts proved to actually sexualise these parts of a womans anatomy more?



Special thanks go to Muppie who took these images and posted them here!

You command my repect, Muppie, and I hope you don't mind me using them in this thread.
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Old 29-05-2006, 05:35 PM
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know that nudists say that nudity becomes "normal" in nudist camps and the men are apparently not "turned on" by all the raw flesh.

I wonder... did "Westerners" do the right thing?

I suppose I am saddened by the fact that "Westerners" tend to impose their customs and culture on others in the name of Christianity. I think that "we" see things only through our perspective without taking a step back and looking at things within their complete context.

Wouldn't Christians prefer for the Holy Spirit to convict people where neccessary, rather than just passing on their sets of beliefs and traditions which I feel are somewhat arbitory and based on cultural "norms" and what is acceptible rater than what the Bible really says.

I used to think it was just normal to be "bare - chested" until I learned that this was "abnormal". Our culture has drawn the lines where it has, others have drawn different lines, are "we" so right and others so wrong?

I honestly think that this type of thing (pressuring people to change cultural norms and value systems) has huge potential to cause more harm then good. If peoples' cultures do need to change then they will make more lasting beneficial changes as a society because of perceived benefits. Of course, if killing and eating people because they have been "marked as a sanguma" is the cultral norm, then I would certainly hope that education and enlightenment would happen quickly and avoid unneccessary pain and loss of human life.

For the Christians out there:

1 Corinthians 6:12-13
"Everything is permissible for me"óbut not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"óbut I will not be mastered by anything. "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"óbut God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

(New International Version)
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Old 29-05-2006, 05:37 PM
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Westerners have, in general, done a horrible job in separating God from their culture. Even worse their culture has used God and the spread of the gospel to help further its very unbiblical values. Nudity is one issue among so many and not the worst. Sometimes I wonder if anyone is doing their homework on the long term effects of colonialization, and how closely the spead of the "gospel" sometimes mirrors this. I'm not implying all missionary work is in vain, there are some whom I admire. Not sure where to go from here, Perhaps the place to start is in humility and respect, especially as a foreigner living in another culture.
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Old 29-05-2006, 05:41 PM
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Again, are "we" so right and are "they" so wrong, do people need to intevene to rectify "inherant problems" in other cultures?

A friend's remarks in relation to this topic were,

"I read something by a Christian Anthropologist a few months ago that was lamenting the harm done by "Westernized Christianity" to so many innocent aspects of other cultures. Did we make them overly aware of their nudity when before they were living in freedom in that department? Perhaps this is a naive thought? But I don't know.

When new believers are left to establish there own convictions about things they often have much different convictions then the western missionaries would expect.

This author went on to give an example of a new group of African believers who were meeting to decide what aspects of the culture had to go and which could stay.
The missionary thought they would eliminate certain kinds of dancing that the woman did. Instead they decided that certain kinds of drum beats were far too erotic but the cultural dancing was harmless. The missionary couldn't see anything wrong with the drumming but... this goes to show that certain cultural forms have very strong connotations for members of that culture.

Think of how we accept what a figure skater wears when she's skating, or a man in speedos in competitive swimming (or every chance he gets on a hot day in Aussie or NZ?)... these forms of attire are acceptable to us in those contexts but we'd find them weird if worn in a grocery store.

Here's a better one... why is it so unthinkable to go barefoot in a store in the United States... there's simply no explanation but it's deeply rooted in our culture that it's taboo!! I used to hate this but now I find myself putting on my sandles just to walk down the block lest I break the unspoken rule.

I think that the more hidden and shrouded in secrecy the body is the more erotic it becomes and the more people want to see it. Of course I'm not suggesting people should be nudists or flaunting themselves or that objectifying people (through pornography) is acceptable ...

In high-school I read "Far from the Madding Crowd".
In one part Gabriel oak gets totally turned on when he peaks through the slats of a barn to see a girl (forget her name) milking a cow. He's turned on because she rolls up her sleeves to reveal her 'milk-white' skin. Gross!!! But for him it was pretty exciting to see those forbidden forearms.

I think it's interesting that in the USA so many woman are so eager to dress to get the attention of men... but most men still dress very conservatively... short shorts on guys haven't been in style for a long time... and for that I'm greatful.

In ancient Rome and Greece the ideal male form was the highest form of beauty but in the modern western world we are obsessed with female beauty and appearantly the obsession with male beauty is relegated to the homosexual community. Tell me if I'm wrong ladies.

Anyone ever seen that National Geo article about the North African tribe where the men have a competition at which the woman choose the most attractive men to be their husbands... pretty interesting. Of course I'm greatful that our culture isn't obsessed with male beauty... cause I can relax... maybe"
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Old 29-05-2006, 05:43 PM
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I also have found it very random that what we find as acceptible in one environment or situation as a culture in relation to clothing or lack thereof is completely unacceptible in another. My wantok gave the examples of a figure skater and speedos. I can't imagine that most women would be comfortable going to the mall in what is acceptible at most Australian beaches and night clubs... but some do.

I really do think that the more you cover up the more parts of one's anatomy has the potential to becomes erotic. I live in a very multicultural city in which there is a large Moslem population, and I know that because of the way that the women cover themselves in "strict" Moslem society, almost any little piece of skin showing is highly erotic.

I sincerely think that the eyes can be used by women in a highly erotic way also.
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Old 29-05-2006, 05:45 PM
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I am very interested in what others think about this topic, and hope that I get a few replies.

Thanks to you all, and a big shout out to all my Wantoks!

Simply,

A.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:45 PM
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I, Matthew See take Svatava Zabloudilova as my lawfully wedded wife.
I, Svatava Zabloudilova as my lawfully wedded wife.
I now pronounce you man and wife you Matthew may kiss your bride.
Matthew kisses his bride Svatava and they are happily married






matt_see2002@yahoo.com.au

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Old 22-09-2019, 02:40 AM
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My wife Svatava at one time went nude on a nude beach.

She has a fantastic body and I have fantastic sex with her.
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