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Old 06-05-2005, 05:05 PM
Nancy96 Nancy96 is offline
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Racism? Put Your Two Cents In

I was reading Patriots thread (in the POM Section), and someone said that he had experienced racism while at the yacht club.

I wanted to know generally people's opinions of racism in PNG and their experiences.

This is not a 'hate' thread against any particular race, if people start to think that, it is just a dicussion that I would like to start off and talk about because I want to know what people think, not only that but it is also important to discuss it.
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Old 07-05-2005, 04:42 AM
mangitbay mangitbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy96
I was reading Patriots thread (in the POM Section), and someone said that he had experienced racism while at the yacht club.

I wanted to know generally people's opinions of racism in PNG and their experiences.

This is not a 'hate' thread against any particular race, if people start to think that, it is just a dicussion that I would like to start off and talk about because I want to know what people think, not only that but it is also important to discuss it.
Racism is equal to Wantok system, whether you like it or not. Wantok system is important in our culture, in terms of sharing. Having said that, getting preference in jobs (with out proper qualifications or same qualifications) depending very much on the person making the final decision on who gets the job, can be classified as "being racist" against someone not from your province (not being a wantok). This also can go on in sports and other social settings.

Will we get rid of it? We will never get rid of it at all - its part of the society. It very much depends on each individual's value for accepting or rejecting "other human beings" as who they and what they are.

If one removes the word "racism" from their vocabulary, it will make a big difference in the way one sees, thinks, and say something.

Just recently I was with few friends during a morning meeting. An Inuit guy (Eskimo), suddenly got up and said something like this...."Mike, Mike...see the difference?" The supervisor was not too sure what the guy (Mark) was referring to; so as the other 12 guys sitting there. Mike said "ok Mark, show me the difference"....Mark got up and pointed to the guy next to me and said..." see "white", "black" & "brown". Pointing to Dan (white Canadian, me (black PNG) and himself (brown Inuit - Eskimo). We all had a good laugh about that. Classical joke for the week. It was fun.

Life is too short to worry about such a thing. Just smile about it and move on. Those that have negative perception about others only hurt themselves in the end.

later...mangitbay
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Last edited by mangitbay; 07-05-2005 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 08-05-2005, 01:51 PM
Nancy96 Nancy96 is offline
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Hey Mangitbay,

I just wanted a general discussion on the topic, Im not hung up about it but I think it would be interesting to understand the functioning of PNG Society in relation to race.

To a point I agree with you Mangitbay, however I disagree that racism is only an individual act I think that it is embedded in society. Throughout history there have been many acts of racism against certain groups of people which has lead to the values and social 'norms' we have in society today that have influenced institutions such as law, and education, that indirectly or directly practice racism, based on societies culture. If racism was truly individual I think it would be random or systematic but it isn't, there is a certain group of people who are discriminated against based on their skin colour.

I also don't agree that just because you remove racism from your vocabulary, then it will make a big difference, because although you may not have the word you still have the actions, I think you need tolerance and only that can be somwhat achieved through education.

I think your view is a little idealistic, sure you don't have to have a chip on your shoulder for the rest of your life, but I think you should be aware of it, thats all.

Though you are right about having acceptance and not letting it rule your life, and I agree 100% that the most angry and judgemental people are often the most insecure people. its nice that you and your mates can laugh about it, shows that its not something to be afraid of saying.

Anyway, thank you for putting your 'two cents' in, nice pic.
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Old 10-05-2005, 02:38 AM
mangitbay mangitbay is offline
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Hey Nancy96:

Thanks for your comments. Note that I have not been subjected to racism back at home and can't remember reading about it in print media. If anybody said racist comments behind my back, no-one bothered to tell me. I have gone to the Yacht Club as an invited guest (a couple of times) and finds ppl there very friendly.

I, however have read a lot about Nepotism in our daily papers. Is it another form of Racism?

I might not be answering or providing required materials for your subject matter, however, if you read my contributions to various documents posted on this wonderful forum, I always try to look for the root causes of a challenge and hope that others would take similar stand (a different approach) in addressing the various challenges.

As for the Racism, I have given more taught to it and will summarise for readers in a nut shell.

Racism has always been both an instrument of discrimination and a tool of exploitation. But it manifests itself as a cultural phenomenon, susceptible to cultural solutions, such as multicultural education and the promotion of ethnic identities.

Tackling the problem of cultural inequality, however, does not by itself redress the problem of economic inequality. Racism is conditioned by economic imperatives, but negotiated through culture: religion, literature, art, science and the media.

... Once, they demonised the blacks to justify slavery. Then they demonised the “coloureds” to justify colonialism. Today, they demonise asylum seekers to justify the ways of globalism. And, in the age of the media, of spin, demonisation sets out the parameters of popular culture within which such exclusion finds its own rationale — usually under the guise of xenophobia, the "Fear of Strangers".

Therefore, when one looks at racism - it comes back to an individual. An individual develops a perception or an idea about someone or a group of people, gathers information to support his/her position, then use persuasive techniques to influence others to support his/her perception. From perception, it moves to be become an opinion and finally accepted as a truth by majority - even if its not the truth. In my view, this gives rise to the birth of "Racism" or more so these days "Equality" supported by "Freedom of Speech".

Yes we have to be aware of it and I am very aware of it everyday. I see it, hear about it and read about it. In my line of work, you hear about it everyday. I can't be mad about it, as it can be interpreted as "harassment".

I can't control what others say or do, but I am in control my own actions, and hope that I can influence those around me to do the same.

later...mangitbay
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Last edited by mangitbay; 11-05-2005 at 01:18 AM. Reason: editing
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Old 11-05-2005, 04:37 AM
.JPG .JPG is offline
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Question Are only white people racists?

It seems that whenever you hear about racism, it is always white people who are racist toward others. Can black/brown/red/yellow/green people be racist too? I am white, and when I was growing up in PNG, I had a PNG national call me a "Bloody white bastard". So am I a victim of racism?
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Old 11-05-2005, 12:09 PM
Nancy96 Nancy96 is offline
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Hey Mangitbay,

Thank you for your opinions, I found myself enlightened!

However I still have to disagree about the individual thing. You said it is the individuals perception of race that guides their actions, but then where does this perception come from? Why does the media depict discriminatory images and facts about race, where did that arise from? Why is there discrimination in the workplace? In regards to the Aboriginal people of Australia, they have been subjected to atrocious acts that were based on the colour of their skin and even today they are treated poorly eg health conditions, employment, and racial discrimination. Yet the government has done very little to help these people, why?

All of these things are based on the societies perception of 'race' that is ingrained in our culture, like I said if racism and I am talking about the larger scale, was truly individual then there would be no one particular race who experiences discrimination by a dominant group.
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Old 11-05-2005, 12:19 PM
Nancy96 Nancy96 is offline
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Hey .JPG,

Of course any person can be racists regardless of their skin colour, it is not just white people and yes you were the victim of racism.

I'm not saying that white people are the only race to discriminate but what I am saying is that in Australia (which is the scoiety I am basing my perception of racism on) they are the dominant groupand are more likely to be giving it rather than receiving it.

I'm really only talking about Australia, because I know this culture more than PNG because I have lived here a little longer (in the latter years of my life) although I was born in PNG, I moved when I was younger so I can't give my own perception of PNG society, although I would like to know more....
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Old 11-05-2005, 04:11 PM
mangitbay mangitbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy96
Hey Mangitbay,

Thank you for your opinions, I found myself enlightened!

However I still have to disagree about the individual thing. You said it is the individuals perception of race that guides their actions, but then where does this perception come from? Why does the media depict discriminatory images and facts about race, where did that arise from? Why is there discrimination in the workplace? In regards to the Aboriginal people of Australia, they have been subjected to atrocious acts that were based on the colour of their skin and even today they are treated poorly eg health conditions, employment, and racial discrimination. Yet the government has done very little to help these people, why?

All of these things are based on the societies perception of 'race' that is ingrained in our culture, like I said if racism and I am talking about the larger scale, was truly individual then there would be no one particular race who experiences discrimination by a dominant group.
Hi Nancy96: What I have said is straight forward and its easy to understand. Sometimes, it takes time to digest something before shooting off. Before I answer some of your questions, I will outline 2 basic points in relation to racism. One of a more scientific bases - which is respecting our species and following the natural law as outline below:
  • All human beings belong to a single species and are descended from a common stock. They are born equal in dignity and rights and all form an integral part of humanity; and
on a more socio-economic side of things. I'll let you digest that and think about the two statements.
  • All peoples of the world possess equal faculties for attaining the highest level in intellectual, technical, social, economic, cultural and political development" and that The differences between the achievements of the different peoples are entirely attributable to geographical, historical, political, economic, social and cultural factors. Such differences can in no case serve as a pretext for any rank-ordered classification of nations or peoples.
Coming to your series of questions, I will try and answer some of them. The bases for all that is good or all that is evil is an idea. That idea is developed by someone inconjunctions with natural factors or conditions. The "need" or "want" to advance knowledge, acquire wealth and more material wealth is the driver for indivduals to develop ideas. Maybe you have heard the phrase "Knowledge is Power". Sharing wealth within is far more important than between - gives raise to Nepotism.

What I said earlier about an individual perception about someone or a group is the bases for developing an idealogy. i.e. "a perception" now is accepted by the followers of a knowledable individual thereby becomes a fact. It is written, communicated and implemented either directly or indirectly. It becomes the "norm".

World history has shown us that; we in PNG, Solomon Island, Vanuatu and Fiji has seen that (insurgents). Few names comes to mind - Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Sadam, Idi Amin Dada, just to name a few. All I am saying here is the example of how an individual can have a signficant influence in implementing an idea.

Therefore, when convicts came to Australia from England, they had to acquire land thinking that its the same in England that land is owned by the state. The long term impact - dispalcement of Native Australians, lost of land, culture and identify. The same can be said about French and English people into Canada. Displacement of Natives and in actual fact, natives were made to fight each other by supporting either the Frenchmen or Englishmen.

Individuals draft/write songs, poems, novels, policies, standards, procedures,legislations, laws etc. They form parties, bands, social clubs, ethnic groups, associations to push an idea through. By the end of the day, it is the individuals that makes a group or a team.

I am different, we are different, they are different.............................

Surely one must have seen in schools where some tough guy/gal has a group of friends that are highly visible compared with other groups that are less visible, but still exist. The question is: How do these less visible groups co-exist with the highly visible group?

I can't go any further now but I can simply say this: the basic unit of life is a "cell". The cell goes through various process of cell division before we see the end product. We know the end product, but do not know about the end product nor have control over it until we see its fruits - my logical answer to most of your questions.

If you are still confuse or still have more questions, get it out...ppl out there will help.

later..mangitbay
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Last edited by mangitbay; 13-05-2005 at 02:21 AM. Reason: More editing
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Old 13-05-2005, 11:06 AM
Nancy96 Nancy96 is offline
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To Mangitbay,

I think that we are misunderstanding each other, and you are brushing that off as me just 'shooting off', Im not.

I think the confusion is what I mean by 'Individual'. By individual (and I am talking mainly now about institutional acts of discrimination) I mean that racism is not something that is directed at just anyone, there are certain groups of people who are discriminated against. As I said before this discrimination is based on societies cutlure and value system which transfers over into institutions or the media.

Aboriginies are an example of this,
- The unemployment rate for Aborigines is 38% compared to 8.6% for non-indigenous people.
- There is a 20 year life span difference between Aboriginal males and white Australian males. An aboriginal males life expectancy is around 55, a white Australian male is around 75.

These are just some of the examples of racism being made towards a group of people. If it were individual then there wouldn't be one particular group being discriminated against.

Do you understand what I mean, I think your right, people do need some time to 'digest' information. Maybe someone will write in and help you out, if you have anymore questions let me know.
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Old 13-05-2005, 02:28 PM
mangitbay mangitbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy96
To Mangitbay,

I think that we are misunderstanding each other, and you are brushing that off as me just 'shooting off', Im not.

I think the confusion is what I mean by 'Individual'. By individual (and I am talking mainly now about institutional acts of discrimination) I mean that racism is not something that is directed at just anyone, there are certain groups of people who are discriminated against. As I said before this discrimination is based on societies cutlure and value system which transfers over into institutions or the media.

Aboriginies are an example of this,
- The unemployment rate for Aborigines is 38% compared to 8.6% for non-indigenous people.
- There is a 20 year life span difference between Aboriginal males and white Australian males. An aboriginal males life expectancy is around 55, a white Australian male is around 75.

These are just some of the examples of racism being made towards a group of people. If it were individual then there wouldn't be one particular group being discriminated against.

Do you understand what I mean, I think your right, people do need some time to 'digest' information. Maybe someone will write in and help you out, if you have anymore questions let me know.
Thanks for your comment Nancy96. We are talking about the same thing. The only difference is that you are looking at the problem that has already exist before you and I were born, while I am looking at the root cause of the problem - How it started.

If you want to be radical about stopping it; those that hear those comments made to them should take the matter to court. There is nothing else you can do to stop it except- the court systems. Will we do it? No, because unless proven guilty, you are free to go. You have the money - more money - you win the case.

Look at land issue in Australia - MABO case. The native guys took it to court; took a long time, but they won. Why can't they do the same with discrimination against native Australians if people feel strongly about it? It then can become the bench mark. Look at immigration policy in Australia - more outsiders seeking residence in Australia.

Your question about lack of jobs for native Australians! Will that immigration policy have an impact on native unemployment? There is more to the whole issue than just institutional acts of discrimination to a group of people.

For that reason, I was talking about the root cause where an individual can make a difference - values, behaviour and respect for others. One does not need money for that. It's a slow process but can be achieved.

Statistics is important and impressive to quote. Do we know the reasons - why that number is so? Stats is not new to me and can be misleading to people that don't understand the objectives for doing stats at the first palce. 65% of my tasks involves stats - the reasoning that goes with it far exceeds statistics itself - we need to have the ability to explain to someone on the street what it meant and why that number could not be any higher than it is right now.

Maybe I am old in my thinking and the world is moving faster than me. I have not lost my love for PNG and when that day comes, I will go over the divine with pride and statisfaction.

Don't think too hard about these issues - just think smart!

later...mangitbay
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Last edited by mangitbay; 15-05-2005 at 08:21 AM.
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